Wikipedia talk:Tomokanga hapori

Whakaaro?

Kia ora koutou / mō ngā pū

Kia ora koutou. Ka pai! He tino taonga tēnei Wiki o tātou. Engari e hoa mā, he hē i roto i ētahi o ngā hononga - pēnā ki te kupu 'Tüpato': kei te hē te pū 'ü'. Ki tōku nei whakaaro, pai ake kia whakamahia e tātou te ū, pēnā: Tūpato. Pēnā hoki nga hononga ki ngā whārangi e rua nei: te 'körero nehe' me te 'puri türanga'.

Kāore e taea e au te whakatika - mā tētahi o ngā kaiwhakahaere Māori pea? Kahuroa 01:10, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Kia ora, e hoa! In the early days of this wiki there was even more use of umlaut/diaeresis where the modern standard is the macron. You may have seen some of the discussions of it above or on other pages. The only disadvantage of replacing with macrons is that not all browsers can read them. I have had that trouble here at my home PC, with rectangles in place of all ten macron characters. That's why I haven't been changing them; the umlauts are more readable than the rectangles. But I'm content to let any other administrators change them.

Some of the wording of the interface links may be worth changing while we are at it. I think it was mostly created by a couple of enthusiastic Americans who knew how to use a dictionary but may not have got the local idiom quite right. You're welcome to list any you think have a better version used on other sites.

Robin Patterson 02:39, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

The whole umlaut/macron/Windows/Mac thing has always been a nightmare! The first attempts at Māori fonts were hacks changing umlauts into fake macrons and of course if you didn't have the hacked font you got umlauts. I think the idea originated with the Hawaiians with their hacked Haw-fonts. But hopefully Unicode will gradually sort all this (Yeah right) Kahuroa 12:43, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

I wonder maybe it would be a good idea to have on mi: a conversion system, like on sr: or zh:, only it will ultra simple on mi:, as it would only involve 10 characters. That conversion system would add two tabs to each page, one to see it using macrons, one to see it using diaeresis. Then, a special tag would be needed to mark real diaeresis (eg, like in german name "Köln") and real macrons (I mean, from text not in maori, eg from a city name in Latvia) so they are not converted. Such sysem would allow reading, but also writting, using either macrons or diaeresis, and the system will convert them (unless tagged as not convertible) and store only macrons.

Srtxg 23:05, 10 Pipiri 2006 (UTC)

Request for article in Maori from English wikipedian.

Whakamāoritia te reo Pākehā i tenei whārangi. This page may contain English-language content that should be translated into Maori.

I would like to ask if someone could possibly produce a Maori article about Radio New Zealand International, or as I believe they used to call themselves on their stickers, Te reo irirangi o Aotearoa o te moana Nui-a-kiwa... I think there's an english article somewhere, but would love to see it in Maori. Regards, Thor Malmjursson (english Wiki)

He ingoa ano?

Waho i te papakupu he wairua ano a nga kupu kua whakatakotoria. Ana, kua tapaina a ratau wharangi penei na e nga tari kawantanga. He whakaaro ano tera. Nei ra ka hiahia kautau i tetehi ingoa, pehea te 'wharangi a hapori'. Ki taku ko te nuinga ka tae mai no nga kura no nga wharekura no nga whare wananga, a to ratau matatau hoki. Kia kite ratau kua tapaina penei na kaore ratau e u. He whakaaro noa. Te Karere 13:08, 11 Noema 2011 (UTC)Te Karere 09:54, 12 Noema 2011 (UTC)

Tomokanga hapori

Are we ready to translate the name of this page and the links thereto? Portal = tomokanga (entrance) and hapori = community. Kahuroa 11:10, 26 Hui-tanguru 2006 (UTC)

"Tomokanga" (vide Williams) also means the capture or sack (of a pā). Some interesting metaphors could be used to bring that meaning in too. I'm easy! (The English interface users will still see "Community portal", of course; but a memorable page name in Te Reo, with a translation in small print near the top, could aid learning.) Robin Patterson 11:26, 26 Hui-tanguru 2006 (UTC)

Even in the examples Williams (and other dictionaries) gives where Tomokanga is said to mean sacking, the translation 'entrance' is still possible - the idea of sacking is obviously a metaphor in that once the enemy reached the tomokanga, it was all over...

For instance Wms entry Capture, sack of a pā has the example 'heoi ano ka tupu hei whawhai; whawhai nei, a tae noa ki te tomokanga o te pā o Houmai-tawhiti...' which could be translated very literally as 'And so fighting broke out; they fought on, arriving at last at the tomokanga of Houmai-tawhiti's pa.... You could replace tomokanga there with 'gateway' OR 'sacking' as you see fit.

Ngata gives Tomokanga as Portal.

Here are some sites using Tomokanga as 'Portal' or Entrance/Entry. This makes me think that Tomokanga might be gaining the specialised mean of Portal in computerspeak:

http://www.aotearoa.gen.nz/maori/

http://www.edcentre.govt.nz/education/sector.portal

http://www.newplymouthnz.com/new+plymouth+district/sculptures.htm (several times)

http://www.tki.org.nz/m/tki/gateway/

http://www.trw.org.nz/He-Puna/four.htm

Another option is Kūaha or Kūwaha. That would also be ok I think, but I thought Tomokanga hapori sounded a bit crisper than Kūaha hapori - but either way is ok. Yet another is Waharoa but that can mean 'you big mouth' Kahuroa 12:45, 26 Hui-tanguru 2006 (UTC)

Convincing. Done. Robin Patterson 05:09, 28 Hui-tanguru 2006 (UTC)

Links to here from other sites

Pleasing to see that the Smile City Weblinks "site" - http://homepages.slingshot.co.nz/~mutednewt/ - still has a link to our [[Wikipedia:Tomokanga hapori in its "Information" category. I haven't checked whether I've sneaked it into any other categories, but I mention this site on the Forum occasionally. Robin Patterson 05:09, 28 Hui-tanguru 2006 (UTC)

Whānautanga

I come across "whānautanga" (delivery/birth process/act of birth) occasionally on this wiki in biographies etc - i guess it is supposed to mean 'date/year of birth' (rā whānau). Just wondering is it on a template somewhere that can be fixed? Kahuroa 08:58, 7 Pipiri 2006 (UTC)

found some on the year pages and fixed recent ones at least. Hopefully the others can be corrected as we come across them.Kahuroa 10:07, 7 Pipiri 2006 (UTC)

He Hapa kei te Whārangi Pūtere

There is an internal link to a deleted page on the Community Portal. As the page is protected, would the administrators please remove the link Wikipedia:Tuhipānui Māori i te Wikipedia Pākehā in the Hei whakamāori, hei whakapai section? Many thanks.--Te Karere 03:26, 16 Noema 2011 (UTC)

Rehutai

Hi, as I do not speak the Maori language, I hope someone here can clarify: rehutai = seaspray? Thank you for your time. Lotje (talk) 12:50, 7 Māehe 2021 (UTC)

That's right. See Māori dictionary. If you are asking about this because of the America's cup, you might be interested in this discussion.-gadfium (talk) 17:27, 7 Māehe 2021 (UTC)

Te tono mō āwhinatanga

Kia Ora Ka taea e au kei te kōrero ētahi te reo Māori, i te reo-a-iwi ō Tainui, engari ka taea e au kia tuhi i ngā reo-a-iwi kātoa. Mehemea ka pīrangi koe, māku tēnei Wikiperia e āwhina. Ngā mihi.--Aubernas (talk) 06:46, 3 Māehe 2022 (UTC)

Any help is most welcome.-gadfium (talk) 08:00, 3 Māehe 2022 (UTC)

Bot-created articles with non-te Reo Māori names

I been looking at wikidata as a source of bi-lingual en/mi placename lists and discovered that there are quite a few Māori placename labels in wikidata that aren't actually te Reo Māori. These appear to have been introduced to wikidata by bots doing interwiki links, based on article names on mi.wiki. Many of the problematic articles appear to have been created by, and only edited by, bots. See for example Bideford, which was created by User:FalcoBot/User:Kahuroa. I would like permission / privileges to delete articles (a) which have only been edited by bots (b) which have names which include characters which are not part of the te Reo Māori alphabet. I would also like guidance on how deletion work on this wiki, since it appears to lack AfD / speedy etc that I'm used to on en.wiki. I would be doing these 100% manually and not bot-based. Stuartyeates (talk) 20:33, 29 Hepetema 2023 (UTC)

Giving you the ability to delete articles yourself would require making you an administrator, but you have almost no activity here in the last ten years. You rated your ability in te reo as mi-1 in 2010. Has your fluency increased since then? I know you from the English Wikipedia and you have my trust, but it seems like a big jump to promote you here.

Deletion normally works by placing Template:Mukua on an article, and I or a steward will usually delete the page reasonably promptly.

We endeavour to enforce that all article-space content (not including references) is in te reo Māori, though pieces of English do slip through. Article titles should be in te reo, and where there is no direct te reo equivalent we use transliteration, preferably finding some external use of the transliterated name rather than making it ourselves. I use the plurals 'we' and 'ourselves' here, but in practice each editor here follows their own standards, so these are my standards but I have not been challenged over them.

Bideford would be a difficult name to transliterate, as 'b' and 'd' are not letters in te reo, 'f' would become 'wh', and vowels would need to be added to separate consonants and end the word. The result would not be recognisable as being the same word. Presumably there was no distinct Māori name for the area, but we could work with the earlier part-Māori name of 'Upper Taueru' (perhaps as Taueru Whakarunga). If this was a major city, or a country name, we'd move the article to such a name - I'd ask advice on this since it's not a simple case.

For small localities such as Bideford, articles were created by Kahuroa using a bot, and these articles have almost no value. Kahuroa has not edited here since 2011, leaving me with limited ability in the language as caretaker of the wiki. I do plan to expand these locality articles in the future with demographics similar to those I add to English Wikipedia, perhaps with the 2023 census data which will be available next year. Bideford is not large enough to have its own demographics, so my inclination is to ignore the article but I am amenable to the suggestion it should be deleted.

I welcome input from others as whether a) we ignore these bot-created articles with names in English, b) we delete those which are too small to be expanded by a census-mining script, or c) we delete any locality article created by FalcoBot and not significantly changed since.-gadfium (talk) 01:23, 30 Hepetema 2023 (UTC)

Sometimes I leave place names here temporarily untransliterated when im not sure hows best to transliterate it, and later either I or someone else goes and transliterates it. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think we shouldn't delete articles which have untransliterated names but rather just transliterate their names. Thomas Norren (talk) 04:47, 30 Hepetema 2023 (UTC)

I acknowledge your longstanding guardianship here gadfium. I figured a way to solve my problem without deleting the articles. If anyone cares to find them, there's a query at https://w.wiki/7Ygj which lists the first 100 articles with a 'b' in them. I'd be less keen on transliterated article names for localities, since both the Treaty of Waitangi settlement processes and the LINZ official naming seem to be trending strongly towards indigenous names from local hapu rather than transliterated names. As someone with little te Reo Māori my 2c may not count for much. Stuartyeates (talk) 08:37, 30 Hepetema 2023 (UTC)

User:Stuartyeates: Interesting query. It would be easy to broaden it to include most other letters not used in te reo. Finding 'g' not part of 'ng' would need to little more expertise in regex.

Quite a few of the results are partly in te reo, e.g. the first item Pukerua Bay. This is an established suburb with census information available, so I would not readily support deletion. There is no article Pukerua either here or on the English Wikipedia, so I don't know if that would be a suitable title to move the article to.

I think this problem of article titles invalid in te reo is probably best deferred to a hoped-for time when there is an active community of fluent editors here.-gadfium (talk) 03:19, 1 Oketopa 2023 (UTC)

User:Gadfium yes, the reason to just search for 'b' rather than anything more complex was entirely down to server load --- simple queries run faster and put less load on the shared resources while I refine things. I'm happy to put it off for a future day. Stuartyeates (talk) 08:09, 1 Oketopa 2023 (UTC)

Kia ora,

I know I am....many months late coming into this conversation.

If they haven't been deleted already, I think it would be worthwhile to leave them. I am just getting started on contributing to this Wiki (I plan to do some light editing on daily/weekly basis).

The value in leaving them is that at the very least, they provide an opportunity to research what the Māori names are for those places and so would provide a valuable resource for learners and translators of te reo to be able to look up the English name to discover the Māori name.

He whakaaro noa. Kaiwhakawhitireo (talk) 06:48, 2 Tīhema 2023 (UTC)

There has been no action taken to delete these articles. If they were to be moved to new names, the existing name would remain as a redirect. I look forward to your contributions.-gadfium (talk) 17:44, 2 Tīhema 2023 (UTC)